Mar 29, 2006

Save Indian Family: Indian Men (not) Dealing with Modernity

I just saw this speech by Suketu Mehta about “Power Feminism” and ”Power Machismo”, as posted up on the Sepia Mutiny News Tips page. I’ve been working on the post below for a while, but just keep getting side-tracked. As it’s going to be a crazy month and I’m on an evening break, I figure I should at least wrap this thing up and post it, especially in light of his piece.

First, a note about the speech. It was interesting, at quick glance, though I don’t know if I agree with all of his characterizations concerning modern society and gender roles, but maybe it’s just the trumpeting of modern India that got on my nerves (though it was more muted than Tharoor’s overblown tribute in From Midnight to Millenium). Then again, he did highlight some of the challenges that remain in front of India (female infanticide, the great literacy divide, and ongoing dowry violence).

Regardless, I looked it over a couple of times and didn’t see anything directly about what I’m posting about below (perhaps this topic is a little too fringe or seedy for a conference speech).

* * *

So, a friend of mine sent me a link recently, encouraging me to check out The Indian American, the online version of a relatively recent publication to hit the streets of desi America. I think the idea is that this should be a bit more hip, and speak a little more to my generation than the India Abroads and News India Times in the U.S. (though I think that Rediff has turned India Abroad around a little, some of the reporting is still vacuous at best).

While perusing the front page of The Indian American, I looked at the links that they offered on their “Indian Blog” roll. The last on the list is “Save Indian Family” Thinking that it sounded like a social service/advocacy organization, I played along and clicked. What I found was at first entertaining, but then became troubling. Now I’m wondering if it’s a bit of a window into the unexpected reactions to changes in India that I’d been wondering about for some time.

* * *

It’s not about “Saving Indian Families” any more than Cows are Cool is about hamburgers (though it did teach me that Joaquin Phoenix is an ardent vegan who doesn’t even wear leather on the set for work).

Anyway, from what I gather, the site is haven to a small group of Indian men (in India) who aren’t particularly happy with the developments in India, at least in the realm of gender equity (which boggles the mind when you take a macro perspective of how far women still have to go in India to have economic and social parity in the nation, but I guess we can equate that with the fearsome white folk stateside).

The main focus of their ire seems to be section 498a of the Indian Penal Code, which deals with dowry harassment. Here’s the statement from their website:
Save Indian Family(SIF) is a movement spearheaded by about 1500 Engineers, Techies, NRIs, Professors, Scientists, Corporate executives, Intellectuals and Senior Citizens working towards creating a Harmonious Society. The online activists are about 590 in number and every week about 30 new people join us.

SIF works against patriarchy, gender based discrimination, media bias, elder abuse, unscientic social research and fund chasing by various organisations in India. SIF members swear by Gender Equality.

SIF Members believe in Free Speech and they are courageous enough to talk about truth without bothering about political correctness. So, some of the findings of SIF can be quite startling to an average reader.
So the first thought I had when I read this statement, without reading the articles and comments, was “hey! they want harmonious society. that’s good.” Reading onward, I saw “against patriarchy and gender based discrimination” and thought “wow! these guys are progressive, too!”

Needless to say - that’s not what’s happening here. These guys are part of a backlash against both the increased legal action against dowry retaliations, and the changing role of women in Indian society. These guys don’t seem to be able to take it. And they’re pretty vicious.

This outlet allows them to highlight specific stories and basically rant against women and social policy in India that apparently does more than simply threaten the status quo of institutional oppression. Oppression that women have confronted in India and around the world from the beginning of gender role assignments in society. But these men seem to feel that they represent a silent and besieged majority of men who have been transformed into the victims of the modernity and Westernization that have turned Indian women into a formidable and dangerous foe.

Here's a choice sample from their blog:
The root of the problem is not 498a, alimony, sowry or maintenance.

The root of the problem is the design by the society to exploit the masculine gender.

So, boys are emotionally suppressed and many of them are sent to work at early stage.

The boys are conditioned to protect and provide for family at the expense of their own well being. This job literally never ends for the man.

The parents and wife put pressure on him to toil hard and provide for the lifestyle. If he does not, then he is not ambitious. If he does, then he is a workholic. He is made to go through choices between
devil and deep sea in his whole life.

So, how men/boys can stop this social attrocity ?

Here are some perspectives:

1) If a man is abused by wife and her family, first he should reduce responsibility towards his parents.

If parents crib, then tell them to get out of Patriarchy and join protest against society’s hypocrisy against men.

2) Do not think of future, savings for old age and responsibility towards children.

3) Do not take insurances for secuirty of family and wife.

4) Do not work hard and get to emergency mode in office.

5) Remove all responsibilities from mind (towards family, towards parents, towards children, towards economy, towards society).

6) This approach will free the man’s mental resources(CPU and Memory).

7) Then, the man can muster enough strength to fight the female and her treacherous parents. He can also teach lesson to armchair hypochondriac hypocrite social activists.

In short, a man must cut off all the responsibilities and live for one day at a time. That will free up all his resources. Then, he can tackle the vicious female and her family in a powerful way.

A few quick observations:

1) It’s really weird the way they use “patriarchy” on this site. I think that it’s somehow getting lost in translation (from Western English to Indian English. It kind of reminds me of that line in the Princess Bride that Inigo Mantoya tells the Sicilian after noticing that he keeps saying “Inconceivable!”

So it seems that they haven’t figured out that patriarchy is not synonymous with women’s rights or gender equity, but is instead more of what they embody through their vitriol. But it’s really pretty funny to read their comments about how increased independence and refusal to allow men and their families to walk over their rights is the result of the backwards “patriarchy” of the West. I want to just write comments to enflame the regulars and get them to write long rants against patriarchy. Sorry... I do not think that means what you think it means!

2) All kidding aside, this site is pretty scary. Though I’m sure it’s a fringe group (after all, 1,500 in a nation of nearly 550,000,000 men is not a big deal), but how many other groups are out there? And how many men are seething in their isolation, unclear about how the reforms and changes in India are ultimately better for the nation, and feeling threatened as cosmopolitanism and opportunity begin to gnaw away at the gender gap? Are these groups analogous to the white pride thugs in the United States, the UK, and Australia who have drawn the tight circle around themselves to protect against the demons of race, ethnicity, and sex that they hate? I don’t know either way, but I think that there may be more of this kind of backlash, with men feeling like they are losing ground and not understanding the concept that parity of this very fundamental kind will pay off in the long run.

3) Regardless of the future - you should contact the Indian American now, tell them that you checked out their site, and that you’re shocked and appalled that a fringe group like this one, which is so obviously anti-woman, is getting equal play as some of the other noteworthy blogs on their site. Someone was lazy in researching who they were advertising. We shouldn’t let that stop us, though!

Here’s my quick note to them:
To Whom it May Concern:

I just started reading the Indian American online, and the content is pretty good, but I was shocked that you linked to the fringe hate group "saveindianfamilies.comorg" on your main page. The group is clearly anti-woman and anti-progress. I am appalled at their site and hope that you will soon remove the link, because it definitely makes me think twice about reading your publication.
* * *

I don’t have the energy to write about this right now, but it definitely calls to question larger issues around so-called “modernity” and the ability of societies to catch up with the rapid developments. India didn’t have extensive mobile phone networks 5 years ago. And now we’re moving into high-speed access and second generation internet technologies and job development. If the United States are having a hard time dealing with the rapidly changing technology, how are older societies dealing with it?

Regardless, this post seems like it’s opening up a lot more questions and possible tangents than I originally envisioned, so I’m calling it a night here, to pick another fight, another day. Feel free to troll on that site, though. These guys take this stuff too seriously, even if they are crazy.

35 comments:

flygirl said...

hi rage,

one of the guys from that site posted a long comment at sachiniti in response to this post. i also stumbled upon another blog started in a similar vein a few months ago, i think it's now expanded to the site that you've linked to. very scary, mysogynistic crap. i particularly liked the "pressure on boy by wife and others to perform." yes, it's all a big plot by women. that's why there's gender imbalance in some states, and why women can't perform that last rights, why a son is important..the internet is fun for watching the nutjobs come out.

Rage said...

Thanks for the backstory/links, flygirl.

I think the internet definitely offers a larger, more potent megaphone to megalomaniacs and megacreeps. So I'll just hope that they aren't gaining ground.

Sumanth said...

Dude,

23,000 men are driven to suicide by their wives in India and all these criminals go scot free.

Do not bring in dowry crap here. Indian Legal system is worse than Taliban Law.

Thousands of Innocent elders and women(even children) are trapped in false cases of 498a and they are jailed without investigation.

This is the greatest human rights violation in last 10 years in India.

Supreme Court of India declared Misuse of 498a as "Legal Terrorism".

Gender Equality also means equal punishment for same crime.

We are not against Gender Equality. We are against Patriarchy and we are against men protecting and providing for their wives.

Come out of dream world and find facts. It is the SOWRY Harassment (and not dowry harassment) which is rampant in India.

If Misandry in the name of "Gender Equality" does not stop, we will bring Gender Equality in Bashing.

Female Bashing= Male Bashing(by Media and you guys)

Sumanth said...

search in internet for dowry harassment, 498a and find the truth.

This is just the begining.

www.498a.org
www.mynation.net
www.saveindianchild.com

Save your innocent elders, mothers and sisters from the dreaded disease of 498a.

Rage said...

23,000 men are driven to suicide by their wives in India and all these criminals go scot free.
Do you have a citation for this, before I comment on this isolated fact.

Do not bring in dowry crap here. Indian Legal system is worse than Taliban Law.
I don't really know what that means, but I do know that the dowry system still exists, even if in middle class families it's transformed into the crazy requests and demands from grooms and their families. Hell, the majority of folks may be fine, but the system is still very unequal.

Thousands of Innocent elders and women(even children) are trapped in false cases of 498a and they are jailed without investigation.
Citation?

This is the greatest human rights violation in last 10 years in India.
Okay. First, the state-sponsored Gujarat massacres in 2002 are beyond this. Second, the dislocation of millions of poor and indigenous people as a function of the Big Dam projects is another. Third, if you're saying last 10 years, what happened in 1995-6 that you're defering to?

Gender Equality also means equal punishment for same crime.
What's the crime that you're talking about?

We are not against Gender Equality. We are against Patriarchy and we are against men protecting and providing for their wives.
What is the definition of "gender equality"? And please - still explain what "patriarchy" means in your rendering? It seems to me that there's still confusion about the definition of terms, not to mention that the site I'm pointing to doesn't really seem to talk about "protecting and providing for wives" as much as it talks about "sexual freedom" for men (as if that hasn't already been the case anyway).

Come out of dream world and find facts. It is the SOWRY Harassment (and not dowry harassment) which is rampant in India.
Again - don't know what this means, but I think you're in denial. Especially given the comments on the sites. You're bordering on anti-woman. Or perhaps, more appropriately, anti-non-silent-woman.

Female Bashing= Male Bashing(by Media and you guys)
What? I still don't follow, "dude." Write back, maybe in more full sentences with more cogent arguments, and maybe we can get somewhere. If I'm wrong in my characterization, correct me. But I can't figure out where you're coming from.

Right now, it looks like the people with that site are trying to hide behind neutral names like "Save Indian Family" and "Save Indian Child" when it's really "Save Status Quo." Just say it. Stop hiding. If you want to be proud of your fringe perspective, at least be up front about it instead of hiding behind the rhetoric of equality or "saving" anything.

Sumanth said...

Here is one more:

Forgotten Women launched in USA.

The NRIs in US launched www.498a.org as well.

Please save your fellow NRIs, as US State Department has already given a Travel Warning to all NRIs on "Misuse of 498a" and "Legal Terrorism" by unscrupulous women in India.

Read about NRI Ambati family and what they have to go through due to a false case of 498a on them.

We have more than 200 members in US. Soon we will be warning all Indian Men not to marry as Marriage gives them and their innocent family as "3day/2Night Free Mandatory Jail pass to the City Central Jail."

Sumanth said...

Please do some research on your own and get back to us.

Please read following books for feminist conspiracy and male bashing (which Naomi Wolf refered to in the Conclave):
Who Stole Feminism

Women who drive men to suicide Go scot free.

Rage said...

Thanks for that post. We'll get the word out to our allies to monitor their "progress." It would be good to inform them about privacy rights, before they start posting pictures and stories.

Abuse of the legal system is a problem, but especially in the realm of domestic violence and familial violence, the scales are incredibly tilted against wives. I know - I've dealt with many, many women who have been abused in their adopted extended family situations.

If people are taking advantage of this law, fine - I believe that's a problem. But you all are not at all balanced - I don't see anything in your rhetoric recognizing that the numbers of women who are subjugated and made to suffer in the face of abuse within their husbands' families are still very large. I don't think you all recognize that at all. So you're only looking at this with a very narrow focus.

Don't lose the forest for the trees, dude. If you really believe in "Saving the Indian Family" maybe you should get some brother together and talk to them about their anger issues, or their view of truly equal family dynamics. Then I'll talk to you, because I'm interested in that, more than fringe perspectives about individual abuses of law.

Sumanth said...

We are against patriarchy because:

1) We do not want men to dominate women.

2) We want equal sharing of responsibilities by men and women.

3) We are against any kind of discrimination based on Gender.

4) We want same punishment for both men and women who drive their wives and husbands respectively to suicide.

5) We want Joint Child Custody.

It is women who lead our ground level organisations.

Do you think, jailing of innocent old and sick people "without investigation" will achieve gender equality in India ?

Do you feel Legal Terrorism will achieve gender equality in India ?

If YES, then please go ahead and create a fascist society.

The Chairperson of Women's Commission calls all husbands Terrorists ?

Do you mean, sexist slur is ok when it is done by women ?

Men must not tell what women should do and Women must not tell what men should do.

Have not you heard of Fathers for Justice in UK ?

Have not you heard of Masculism/Masculinism ? Wake up dude.....find it out in Wikipedia.

Anonymous said...

My reply to http://theindianamerican.com article "Whats wrong with Indian Men"

Ladies,

you know we call you ladies as Suparnka's here in india? I'll tell you why. Becuz it was Suparnka who wanted everything by her way and that's why her nose was cut!!! Now lets compare whith seeta. whe was a lady who was from such a rich and royal family. and even then she sacrificed everything to go on with Lord rama on exile. thats why seeta is still remembered and not suparnka. so this was the comparison. now coming back to our issue that mainly revolves around the career orientation. Everything is destined and shall work properly if its working according to the law of nature which defines its functionality. men are supposed and known as bread earners of the family and woman as homemakers. even supreme court of india has defined men as bread earner of the family. so a man is supposed to work and earn and a woman to make an ideal household. Now bonus points to be considered. if a man is helping the lady in the household chores as long as it doesnt hurt his primary objective i.e. earn money, its a bonus point and not a compulsion. similarly, if a woman is earning as long as it doesnt hurt her primary objective, i.e. make a home, its a bonus point and not a compulsion. Now where the conflict starts. Woman think men are envious of their earning and get jelous when they supersede them in career. ha ha ha!!!!!!! joke of the lady!!!!!! why should they do that? men are men and nobody can supersede men cuz that's why they are called men and not woman. why dont you say its a woman's word instead of saying its a MAN"S WORD?????????? Nature has defined it. so no arguments over it. simply accept that fact. Now coming to the Nature. And that's where I am going to get a bit dirty but you know its a naked fact and you cant deny that. That is goin to hurt you, but you know, thats a fact and now accept it bravely. You know even God knew that woman are dirty. They hey that dirty blood inside them. You know that. and it comes out in form of menses during the menstrual cycle. And thats why God has made your life miserable also. Be a female peon or be a female chairperson of a company. 3 days are like hell of them. They bleed. and they cant copulate. they cant work. they have that stupid pain in their stomach and those dirty thoughts which are their in you mind come out in form of dirty blood from the passage of which you take the advantage the most. That also gets dirty and its a time that during when you openly invite a man, be you be the most beautiful and successful woman in the world, no man shall be ready to even compulate with you. thats where you worth comes on the foreground. and aaaah, those painful 3 days every month, what to do about that? keep on taking baralgon, your success cant stop your menses. thats one naked truth. Next, its called here in India "chahey kaddu girey chaku pe ya chaku girey kaddu pe, katega kaddu hi" (meaning where a pumpkin falls on a knife or a knife falls on a pumpkin. hardly matters. Only the pumpkin shall be cut!). Same as in here. thats why men have an organ and woman dont. God has made them that way only. a woman cant enjoy compulation unless it hurts her. she'll enjoy only when the compulation is hurting her. no hurt and no enjoyment. so immaterial whether the woman is on the top or a man is on the top. the organ of a MAN SHALL go inside the vaccuum of a woman. she lacks organ. and she is made to be penetrated by a man. thats nature lady.

Now lets come down to a nutshell.
we Indian men dont have any problem with working woman. fine go ahead and make you carreer. we are NOT going to stop you. But PLEASE, dont sulk and desert us if we just become homakers!!! We tolerate when you dont earn and sit down and eat jalebi's and dry fruits and buy jewellaries and new sareers and diamond neckless pay for the apartment and earn for the kids and earn money for your kitty parties from our hard earned, swetting money.

Fine, go ahead, we are now ready to become homemakers and you go out in the streets and earn for us and our kids. We WONT have any issues.

Hope all the MEN in the universe shall agree with me. We are ready to become the weaker sex now. But we want family union not family breakups.

If you have any ferocious comments on my comment, do write back to me if you are a woman and drunk your mother's milk, I shall reply back with appropriate answers, what is a MAN's WORD!

email me at compumast@yahoo.com

Rage said...

The freaks seem to be coming out now, folks. Bring it on.

Open invitation to folks to reply.

Sumanth said...

We have to refer to International Domestic Violence Stats. It is 75:25 by men and women. But, women initiate DV in 66% of all cases.

Knee-jerk reactions does not solve problems.

Abused Urban Indian Men (especially Techies and NRIs) are
in a real bad shape. We conduct weekly meetings in Delhi, Bangalore, Mumbai, Pune.

Media does not want to talk about this issue. The innocent mothers and sisters are also women. If we alk about their plight, we are considered as MCPs.

Why dowry is still a problem ?

Because, educated women want to marry up. There is a demand and supply problem. The Dowry law is only symptomatic. The Govt has not yet appointed any Dowry Prohibition Officers. There are no checks on Extravagant Weddings.

We have enough False Dowry and 498a cases with us which were quashed by Bangalore High Court and by Supreme Court.

Indian Patriarchal Legal System lets Murderers go scot free and it requests rape victims to marry rapists. But, it wont mind jailing innocent people(even children, 87 year old grandmothers) in false 498a cases. The police extorts huge sums of money under threats. For a techie it is about 2 lacs and for an NRI it is 4 to 6 lacs.

Lawyers advise the girls(who want divorce) to file 498a so that they can corner and harass husband's family for a quick monetary settlement. Lawyers(of both sides) get 20% of the alimony amount.

Many old parents and men have committed suicide after returning from jail.

There is no dearth of educational and employment opportunities for women in India. 25% of software engineers are women and 50% of medical students are women. I do not think, any other country has got better stats than these.

We have helplines running in more than 10 cities and we have many local chapters.

You can find more details in Yahoogroup Saveindianfamily.

sreedharan samudrey said...

-Consequences of IPC498a on India-


Infact, the problem is our Indian ppl are poisoned by radical Feminists organisations dangerously for a decade. Whether a

male or female, a child doesn’t know. They acquire knowledge through the society. Current society contains most vultures in

the form of radical Women NGOs as self-centered. Continuos spread of hatred towards a man and dowry made these little

children prone to poison. Dowry is a social custom in India for centuries. Crime by dowry DEMAND is nothing but greed. we

already have laws for cheating, greedy, characterless fellows. why this 498a brought-in by Govt.? and that ‘mental tension

clause’...purely another CORRUPTION.

If you see a women around 18 or 20+ and she is straightly, against a man and male society (misandry). Though, she is brought

up by her father, brother. still, she says men are BAD/CRUEL. It is not their fault. These vultures should be brought to

justice. If they were in USA, by now they would have met their fate. Almost devastated the culture of India.
There is no way for an Indian men to quit bad marriage or bad wife without hicking up himself into big trouble? Even men

want to separate in the first year...several years with several lakhs of rupees maintenance for such women How many young

generation IGNORANT boys (unfortunately IITs/IIMs/Doctors/Engineers) knows this? Forget about child custody for fathers in

India for such marriages. It easily takes atleast 6 yrs. of rigorous legal battle JUST TO GET RID OF such wife in India.

These men already created an image of sita in their heart for INDIAN WOMEN. How many young men know, how DANGEROUS AND

TERROR the marriage in India is with IPC-498a/DV act(current form)? Do these educated guys know about present day urban

Indian women fastness with support of these laws MAKE them 100% stupid inside marriage.? A single piece of complaint lands

mothers/fathers and these husbands sisters in INDIAN JAILS under Non-bailable warrants. There are many cases like

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/mar152006/city2010262006314.asp Many other young men are starved of sex, their

perspective towards looking at woman hasn’t changed.

These youngsters MUST be grateful to “Save Indian Family” foundation for making awareness of this TRUTH on internet and

ground scale. JUST because of internet and educated boys who with un-selfish motives were able to bring this TRUTH into

Public. Do you think a common dhoti administrators or their bureacrats would make such awareness for stopping their funds??

We know that you youngsters run blindly and face this, only difference being elders could not dare to come out BUT

youngster’s do taking risk on DEATH/DEPRESSION of their parents and running behind Indian corrupt courts to come out of such

marriages.

Currently, on an average 52% divorces in the first 5 years of marriages all over urban cities have started (from 2000). who

take responsibility for this? Many children are with single parenting. Singel parent children are more prone to crimes in

any culture by statistics. Many elderly ppl. who gave everything to their children sacrificing their life and earnings and

happiness are homeless due to this law or are living themselves. Do these vultures take responsibility for this?
I came across some women who were deserted by their husbands (present generation) for giving 498a threat/blackmail inside

marriage for their unmaturity or parental involvement or their so-called fastness or other reasons and few yrs. later able

to bring their parents (success as per her parents) to foreign lands on landing status but ended up looking for Indian men

on internet for several years. In loneliness in 30s, less % of Indian men living in those countries and could not settle in

next marriage/s (for these men smartness and do not risk), started bizarre living-relationships for sometime. How many

Indian girls are adapted to living such life styles? Western culture and western women are adapted by birth for such

culture, but CAN WE? Is this the way one wanted our culture to get into and is this so-called modernization and fastness for

our young ladies. PLS. DO NOT THINK THAT PRESENT INDIAN MEN CAN’T RISK SUCH MARRIAGE FOR SUCH THREAT.I suggest our women,

risk marriages for VIRTUE and appropriate reasons only. These parents should think about it.

IPC498a is enacted by legislation a decade back and marital discord between men and women raised tremendously. Many women

were not capable of earning, but learn about this law by parents for their selfish reasons. Men being not happy with wives,

under 498a threat from time to time. Men who are in threat are greatly public servants,social ppl, highly educated,

scientists in urban areas participating infrastructure design for the country. what happens when these ppl.are not healthy

in living? That naturally got affected on the rural areas. No proper planning, infrastructure affected, wisdom got lost and

the country led to 48% poverty level now(eating one meal in a day) and population increase. Other side, Some men can act

like http://www.saveindianfamily.org/blogs/category/stories/ig_radha/ to counter. There is no other way round.

Hooligans/goondas,politicians and evils in society doesn’t have problem of IPC 498a. They know how to handle in-laws (jungle

raj). What happened to cases filed against advani/thackeray/haryana chief minister and many more figures?!!

Some ppl. still think that, society is better than developed nations, though we face several problems(polulation, poverty,

crime etc.,); still country is surviving and OK. It looks OK.

BUT I WARN, there is a limit on everything. We are not far away from heavy disaster or calamity which can’t be even

thought. All intellectuals leave the county for minimal standards andbrain drain. Social-engineering sense mitigated ppl.

continue to rule the country. country leads to graveyard. we may be almost there.
To add gas to fire, domestic violence bill is introduced. sec-3 is designed very dangerously. women can obtain home

of in-laws and throw them out. how many ppl. know about this Domestic violence?? This will be another 498a in India,if

adopted in current form.

what these vultures wanted from india. They are indians too. Even if they are funded by western interests, they should not

have sacrificed India for the whole purposes. Foreigners, who directly ruled India are far better than these ppl, who have

already poisoned the society. Will there be a punishment to their children in the form of accidents.
Marriage and divorces are purely personal in nature or relation. Every individual got ‘Rights’ over it. who are feminists

organisations to involve in compromising or resolving such issues. who are these dictators over person’s life.? Stop this

non-sense. The problem is INDIAN MEN themself. They became so foolish, that they are not able to understand, how their

health has became by bonded labour after marriage. Today, Diabetes rates for Indian men is one among largest in the world.

Suicide rates for Indian men in their 30s/40s is 3.2 times Indian women (www.forgottenwomen.org). Their faces are rotten and

pale.

For each 498a, on an average, there is atleast 1 lakh of money being spent in urban area by the family for various
reason from corruption to bail. In higher middle class families, where good earning is there, the expense spent easily
goes to 10lakhs. Wife has to be compensated for quashing the case—till—to court clerk. If an NRI is caught by the
police, excellent day for the bad ppl. Several lakhs of rupees being spilt.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=136812?msid=136812

If one notices, many women NGOs, politicians are behind NRIs and higher middle class ppl., stating provision of cell phones

for such assaulted women, advertising in newspaper about NGO to report to. Central treasury is empty. Poverty ridden

homeless children are suffering mercilessly. Many poor women are dying for hunger. NRI became important for these NGOs than

those children. “office-of-profit” ordinance changes or some other useless or selfish amendments are important for them.
I believe, most of these organizations are just waiting to get calls by NRI wife. The day call is received by NGOs, work
on it, as there is big booty. Americans recognize the tantrums of Indian politicians indirectly.
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=768649893bc5975ce97b6bff5354c210?article_id=7686
49893bc5975ce97b6bff5354c210

Supreme court is hand folded due to fear of ant population of Women NGOs dharna for any action being taken—

http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/22/stories/2005072202631500.htm . India is whining; there is completely dirt inside the

parliament. Who will clean this?

And who is benefitting out of this whole process. NO ONE, BUT COUNTRY AND CULTURE will 100% DEVASTATES.
Dedicated: For educated families FATHERS/MOTHERS and speedy running DAUGHTERS who brain-washed for 2 decades by this radical

women organizations.
Disclaimer: These are my perceptions only. Nothing to do with other’s or an attempt to change. I disclaim all liabilities

and read at your own risk and intelligence.

www.498a.org
www.saveindianfamily.org
SIF men are angry for enthusiasm to deal with dhoti rulers, as SIF knows very well that dhoti rulers are busy in corruption

and will never heed public solutions. “bhains kab sunega geeth ki awaz”.

Shubie said...

Rage,

I have gone through your entire post and almost all the comments by you and others. I think you are right in having the kind of thoughts you are portraying in this post and comments and I used to believe like this too. However my opinion changed when I became the real victim on this law and then realized why these guys are shouting foul. I think you need to understand this law closely and realize the real effects of the same when it is misused. The problem is that if it was to protect women and improve their status in the society it was more than welcome and why not we still worship women in India. If you look closely most of these victims are not fighting if the law was to only affect them but they are up to this fight because their entire family gets to suffer that includes many women from the same society we are talking about like mothers, grandmothers, schoolgoing and even married (who have their own family) sisters or better I say anyone that she can name in her complaint. Do you get the picture now how imbalanced is this law? The same women you want to see empowered would suffer in their schooltime or in their married life or in their old age if they are trapped by this law. Ofcourse not everyone misuses this but the devils and while seeing the kind of success these devils get the devils (which is inside everyone of us) gets inspired in other women too and by everyday this is killing the society.

Does it ring a bell? If not you have got to be in shoes of any of the victims of this law and realize the pain yourself!

Shubie said...

The problem becomes much more serious when you see your schoolgoing sister being jailed for no reason. The problem becomes terrible when your old age parents/grandparents are thrown in jail for their innocence. The problem gets unsustainable when your married sisters and relatives are jailed when they have not even visited you once after your marriage. Can you simply handle the pain when your lovely little daugther is beaten up badly and burnt with matchstick just to harrass you by your wife?

You are living in an altogether different world Rage! You are commenting on these issues from a philosophical point of view and you can't even imagine that above can be true and thats the whole problem is with us!

Swarup said...

My question still unanswered , Is there any Modern Laxman or only Modern Ravans are there ?

Yes they say the developemnt means supporting a Modern Supernakha activity , as a reslut Indian goverment are doing a great job , to increse the Modern Ravan instead of Modern Laxman , as per them the women well fare means sending age old parents bhind the bar , pregent sister behind the bar , and for that no investigation is required .

Good if this is called developement we have seen 21st cnetury , let wait for 22nd century , there will not be any difference between a human and a animal , great , education and good writting englisxh does not ensure that you are not a blind .

Crime is crime punishment should be as per crime , the fight should be criminal vs innocent , but the same converted to Men vs Women , thanks to modern supernakha for fooling the whole world .

I know you will delete this coment , as you are all dishonest people , allready 5 coments had been deleted , so it had been kept in http://pariwariksuraksha.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-feminist-bloger-delete-public.html

Swarup said...

As Ms. Sobha de , said , Indian men are still in 16th century and indian women are in 21st century .

I fully agree .

So the question, dear Indian Husbands are you ready to come in 21st Century reality or still prefer to stay in 16th Century mind set???

As per them as soon as they get a MBA degree, Indian wives get:-
- Whole sale free license for multiple adult rite relationship

- Whole sale free license for abuse and sending Jail your age old Parents and Pregent sister

- Whole sale free license for killing your Child

- Whole sale free license for Child abuse under single parenting system

- Whole sale free license for asking her husband to kiss her feet every day morning

- Whole sale free license to refuse a cup of tea with husband in the morning, because they will be busy at mid night Pub for “TAKILA” drink and 555 Cigarettes.

The story does not end here, they want each and every think as per 21st century, but when it comes for break up (as 55% divorce case filed by wives with a 498a, dowry harassment case) want huge money in the name of abala nari (16th century Indian wives) like maintance, alimony, house..etc. That time they suddenly forget their MBA degree and start claiming she is a Perfect Indian Wife and she deserves all the sympathy as per Indian Institution of Marriage.

If any LAW maker does not have the sufficient knowledge , then why they make such a stupid LAW ??
http://www.indiatalking.com/blog/swarup/1326/
Indian Parents and Pregent Sister are in Jail !!!

You can delete the coment but whole world will see it from here :-
http://pariwariksuraksha.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-feminist-bloger-delete-public.html

saveindianchild said...

Your coment uncel or Aunti ? :-

"appalled that a fringe group like this one, which is so obviously anti-woman"

if this is your problem , then you must complin to NCW , National commission of Women of India , why they had make such stupid law , by which a Mothere , Sister , Daughter go to Jail without any investigation .

Do you know waht is 498A ? Check first to update your knowledge as 498A available only in India .

At last if your word means only a dishonest daughter in law , yes we are against modern supernakha , as per me women means a mother , sister , a daughter also , so do you want to say NCW doing all anti woemn activity with Indian goverment money ?

Awating for your reply , waht is called a women ?

And then why such stupid law are there where a women go to jail without any investigation ?

Supreme court of India says , it is legal terrorism the way misuse of 498A happening in India .

Are those law maker will not be punished ?

Swarup said...

still we have some hope as we are not animal ,
still our heart beats for our mother , for our sister , for our
brother , for our father , for our child , and off course for our
respected wives!!Only thing they had been made blind that men have to
treated as rapist only .

Some where a good well educated lady , writes she feel shame that a
60 years old man sitting in a resturant with his grand daughter , she
fells some thing fissy , but when I swa a lot of grand mother along
with thier grand son in a resturent , i fell so happy , and say my
self , yes this called love .

We never herad the word from any women orginasation that Women must
respect men , where as every where a lot of men say , we must respect
women . But every thing have a limit , when that limit cross , the
violence occured , ok , do not want to respect us , do not do that ,
but that does not give any whole sale free lincence to dis respect to
all MEN sister and mother also.

I grantee , let all the marrige LAW , give all the punishment to
Husabnd , as my last discussion with a NCW suporter ,Leave along all
our realtive , then let see who is dare to file a false 498A ??

Those modern supernakha knows that very well , so only tactfully
inserted the word relative , for balckmailling and extortion of money.

As we are still human .

That is the reson i am more happy to go to jail for not giving
maintace instead of in 498a , i will happy to go to jail in a rape
case , as there my mother sister will not go to jail .

If i am not capable to save my wife from any form of harrasement from
my family members , let punish me , remove this stupid "relative
word " , then we will see how many dare to misuse it .

Who ever feel bad , can very well go to NCW and LAW maker to do
this , otherwise the crime against women , insult against women will
increse .

Check this which was my first article was accepted by mass
publication :-
http://www.indiatalking.com/blog/swarup/1162/

Where i had alrready predicted :-

the Crime against women, illegal business, dishonest way to earn the
money , blackmailing will reach in world top most level . Whole world
will make us fool and will be able to weaken our basis foundation of
the Indian Society. They will make fun of our Judiciary and Criminal
Cases. Because in India still we fight for our Mother, sister.

So , my view , if NCW really want to reduce this , immediately should
propose to stop this legal terrorism in india as a massive campin ,
otherwise , sorry , in 22nd century just watch , what will happen.

Anonymous said...

Firstly, I understand your feelings more than any one else either
here or on the whole planet earth. Mainly because my EGO is dead and
other thing is I am hurt severely by Indian laws.

Unfortunately Mind should overrule everything in this world. India
is most political.

politics are worst than a worst prostitute by (Indian) definition.

So, we got to follow terms like tricks, deceptions, treachery etc.,
JUST to protect GOOD ppl. in our society from the clutches of
bastards. Unfortunately straight path doesn't work.

Just Delhi has got >100 women organizations. We have 0 men
organizations throughout India. India is sharply inclined towards
women. It is politically wrong to set up purely "MEN protection "
NGOs. So, How to win this war?? only by above terms.

So, let us use the trick of MOM and SISTERS suffering. We need to
pull or incline all existing women organisations towards welfare of
such women. If you write straightly against menses/women dirty by
nature etc.,we are infact opening our weakness to the world.

For eg: If I shout at a Law maker ==> you bastard you are
responsible for killing my mother and sister. This sentence may
sound well when everyone hear it.

But if I shout at a Law maker stating ==> you bastard you are
responsible in bringing a law for women who are DIRTY/FOUL BY
NATURE. none gives weight on subject.

Rage said...

Hmmm - seems like y'all have a lot to say. You have your own sites, but feel compelled to repeat the same things over and over here. I know that some people feel that they have been wrongly persecuted because of this law, but I also think that the anti-woman rhetoric is very strong on your sites, so I don't think this is really about your "sister and mother" more than it is a show of "strength" of some kind, and resulting group

"swarup": I haven't deleted comments, because I think that they are quite illustrative of the level of bile that y'all are generating. But I do think that it's a bit egomaniacal to think that the "world is reading." The web may be powerful, but let's not get too carried away.

Swarup: thanks for the more thoughtful (and cogent) arguments, but I think that Indian society does need to change. I'm not so far removed to see what has been happening for millenia. The "Sita" example is perfect - Indian men still want "Sitas" who will forgive their every transgression. And there are a LOT of transgressions. What I don't understand is why Indian men don't organize themselves around being better fathers or spouses, or challenging themselves to change the incredibly oppressive Indian cultural standards that not only hold women back, but result in so much violence.

Some Indian men take little responsibility for family planning, often do little around the house, get angry quickly and forgive their families of their behavior against their wives easily. I've also seen the families of brides back away and say nothing as their daughters have been abused, physically and mentally, because that's the "proper" thing to do.

Answer those questions, because those numbers are far greater than yours. And being anti-woman doesn't really solve anything.

Anonymous said...

Now the King is out. You know, even kids become King when
the real King of Jungle is in the cage. That was exactly what
happened to me. But now the scene is different. The King, the Lion is
out now. And to add gas to fire, he is now a man-eater. So I AM
dangerous, no doubts in that.

Please do not try to stop me, cuz only ppl like me only can stop this
498a and dv and not like the rest of 85% of People who just born in this world and forget the value of thier Honest Mother Milk.

Swarup said...

Rage ,

I said you , Indian men still in 16th century , the day they reslise this is 21st cnetury , all the problem will be solved , and for this stupid LAW I balame to Indian men only , they deserve such type of LAW .

But only one thing I wonder , If the institution of marrige get killed who will suffer more MEN or WOMEN ?

We have to await and watch for the answer .

Still i repeat , I say every where , we need to kill the Modern Supernakha and Modern Ravans .

Regarding Sita , I used Modern Sita , hope do you know waht that .

Try to find in a open eye , you will able to see the differnece , Indian men are the victim of the fight between WOMEN vs.WOMEN .

may be I am wrong , but the day this fight Women vs Women will stop no men will became a rapist my dear .

I strongly belive , my prediction should be wrong , SIF . save indian family web site must stop , heating article should stop , but my dear every action have a reaction .

Till the time this MEN vs.Women fihgt can not be converted to Criminal vs Innocent , we have to just wonder , waht type of education we got .

Rage said...

Man. I can't even understand these comments anymore. The rhetoric is flying all over the place... I think y'all need a better spokesperson. Maybe someone who doesn't speak or write in code.

Swarup said...

"Some Indian men take little responsibility for family planning, often do little around the house, get angry quickly and forgive their families of their behavior against their wives easily. I've also seen the families of brides back away and say nothing as their daughters have been abused, physically and mentally, because that's the "proper" thing to do."

- the answer you will get from 498A , DV act , rape law , all the law based in the assumption that all 600 millions men are rapist and all the 600 millions women are abala nari .

As a result , the Law made keep in mind that , Modern sita will be saved , but in reality they still suffer due to modern supernakha .

We need domestic harmoney law , not a domestic violence law , where " Verbal abuse , mental harrasement , economical abuse , adultrate realtionship " , both a husabnd and wife should be equally punished , who ever does that crime , offcourse there should be some evidence .

A daughter and son should have the equal right to thier parental assets , the should have equal status in education , if required ( give them free education , self employment ) , every one will support , but if any one think that women empowerment means , grabing husabnd money and property by legal terrorism and sending thier relative behind the bar , sorry , history wittness , terroist activity kill only innocent , terrorist activity can not give the freedom , the same thing happening today in India , Modern Ram ,Modern Laxman are behind the bar in false case , and Modern Ravan are freely moving in the society , as a result , you will find today in India only modern Ravan , not Modern Laxman principal .

Swarup said...

Yes you will not understand , because .

neither God or Law maker had given any power to kill the child in the hand of Husabnd , still husabnd to be punished for killing the child and wives have a whole sale free lincence to kill the child .

Five feminsit doctor , who got award from president for campainning "stop killing child " , had been exposed by STAR NEWS , how they killing the child in thier own clinic as a killing of machhar .

After expose , till date no punishment , where as the question raised in the Parlament , we must stop sting operation by media.

This India my dear !!!

For this you have to come to indian village , where you have to see how a husabnd and wife work together in the feild , how they work for thier child , not in Urban India , where some people argue with their parents , waht type of wear they have wear as a freedom spech , and on the other hand , some people does not have a cloth to cover thier body .

Swarup said...

This the last one for you Rage

When some one abuse your mother /sister in a raod what you will do ?

Now the next question :-

" When in your own whome a dishonest daughter in law abuse your mother /sister waht you will do ?"

WHO . world health orginasation mention the same as a missing voice and edler abuse by daughter in law is the bigest problem in india due to thier Non caring nature .. hope they also lie , but reality does not prove that .

Indian law maker does not have any answer , Indian Husabnd does not have answer , hope you have the answer !!!
In the raod you can shout back , but inside the room you are a NAA MARAD !!

saveindianchild said...

Rage uncel , I think SITA suffered more and more due to the activity of Supernakha .

My dadi was telling that , all had been killed but supernakha was escaped alive , so only today we see a lot of Modern Supernakha and the Modern Sita still suffering.

In addition to that 498A , DV act , rape law , eve teasing LAW ensures that Modern Laxman is totally power less and Modern Ravan taking all the advantages for that

Sorry I amy be too young , uncle , but this is my view , till the time Modern Supernakah will not be killed in our society , our modern sita will have to pay the price .

SIF said...

Some of the highlight , when SIF raise their voice for elder abuse along with WHO reports , but NCW say sorry let your parent go to jail , we do not brother .
So

"The Poison Tree of "Section 498a"was planted by Feminists and they must take responsibility for any deaths or cruelty incurred to an old and sick elder when a mischievious daughter-in-law files a false complaint. Today, feminists agree that section 498a is misused and yet they bluntly refuse to help any innocent elder approaching them. Does not Nazi Germany compensate other countries for its crimes ? Now, feminists must compensate for elderly "ection 498a misuse"victims by helping them. Media must exercise caution while reporting so called harassment of daughter-in-law stories and try to see the truth behind each story. Many thick skinned Feminists and pseudo-liberals even go to the extent to say "If section 498a is misused, so it be. Why do not these harassed elders protest ?"

It is an extremely unfortuantely scenario in India where old people are told to campaign if they are wronged. The old people having passed their prime, being weak and sick can not shout slogans in the streets. They can not hold protest marches. Often, when they approach Human Rights activists or Feminists oriented NGOs, they are shown the door. "

What SIF think today , whole world think tomorrow , that is the reson some people say SIF does not have any brain !!!

someone else said...

For people who are so oppressed, these men seem to have a significant amount of time on their hands. In any case, I found this article by someone from Amnesty International's India branch which takes a measured but critical stance towards claims that the law in question is being abused. As someone who was totally unfamiliar with this specific policy before I looked at this post, I have to say that a lot of the Indian men (I can only assume you're Indian men) posting here are 1) either grossly misled or have a pro-patriarchy agenda of your own 2) seem like they are in some kind of pain, which I can understand, but it woudl help if you would articulate it instead of pointing to an obscure section of the Indian Penal Code that's designed to prevent women from being victimized and 3) could use an editor :) I don't want to go off on your posts because it's easy for me to do so as an Indian-American trained in the "right" English as a first language, but it is a bit difficul to read what you wrote because of the sheer flurry of thoughts and anger and other things that are thrown at us with no organization and so many times.

I don't know that much about this issue, but it strikes me that, as rage says, what you're talking about is not really valid.

-s

Sumanth said...

Amnesty International supports Legal Terrorism under 498a.

Amnesty International is a feminist den.

It fights for rights of Terrorists and yet supports the jailing of innocents.

What happened to "Prisoner's Conscience" ?

THINK DEEP said...

To Rage and Someone else,

1) just read "shubie" comments closely.

2) By present IPC 498a, country is looting URBAN MEN AND FAMILY. IT BECAME POLITICAL RACKET.

3) Neither this is women vs. women fight or men vs. women fight. This is UTMOST CORRUPTION VS. EDUCATED FAMILIES in India.

4) I AM IN USA, MY WIFE US BORN, HER FATHER (INDIA BORN). SHE PUT IPC 498A ON ME WHEN I WENT TO INDIA, ON PRETEXT OF HARRASSMENT AND I GOT TO SPEND $60k TO COME OUT OF INDIA. DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND NOW, WHY THESE GUYS ARE RAGE..?

5) A person living in Delhi with his wife, whose elder parents(60s/70s) are in kerala (hardly been to delhi) been jailed for 1 month at delhi (police took time/money to go to kerala and arrest these elder citizens as TERRORISTS). Don't you think, there is a RACKET and LARGE SCALE CORRUPTION involved from GOVT. side here.

=========================

At last some Indian lawmakers must be taught a kick lessons otherwise, these guys sell MOMS and country to other countries.

Anonymous said...

Laws are made to Punish criminals and prevent crime from society. Same Laws are amended as time
changes or when people started to misuse it, if there are bugs in it. Or same laws are no longer
serving the purpose. But in India there are some Barbarian and Stone Age time laws still exist, one
of such law is Dowry Prohibition act of 1961. It is also called IPC 498A.

Under this law, one word of a wife against her husband can land him in jail, send his old
age parents behind bars, or anyone whoever she name in her complaint, even husband married pregnant
sisters along with her breast fed small children. Wife’s one word and some crocodile tears will
enough to lock them up for months; without any investigation or enquiry. This 498A of IPC is non
bailable and non compoundable, so these innocent victims are harassed for long for sure.

The Law Authority of India, knows about this misuse, Even Supreme court of India called it
Legal Terrorism
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050722/asp/nation/story_5020229.asp - Dowry law no license to settle scores: SC.
And this law no longer serves any purpose, nor it’s solving any problem of women.
Show me single family live together after 498A;
Show me single Family Solved its problem after 498A;
Show me Single Daughter-In-Law live happily after her false 498A dumped her husband family in
jail.
Show me single family / Marriage is not ended after husband arrested under 498A.

I can show 1000 Plus Families harassed by this Law [498A
Victims Stories
]


If its not serve the purpose,
If its not solve the Family / Marital Problem.
If its not stop menace of dowry System.
If its used as tool to blackmail husband family;
If its used to harass innocent old age people;
If its breaking Families;
If it’s a Marriage Splitter;
If its give way to single parent system.


Then why this law still exists…?

Not only this law, there are many other laws to protect women Interest but none for Men, who are victimised;

IPC 376 - Rape Law; Even women had consensual sex still she can charge man with RAPE;
When someone caught her red handed, with her Pre marital or Extra marital sex, she can charge man with RAPE;

Domestic Violence (Prevention) Bill, 2000
- Under this Law man has no right to talk also, women can charge husband with mental harassment;but man cann`t charge her with same WHY?

And Recent Supreme Court verdict;
- No sex can be lead to Divorce; but if women without sex for no reason man cann`t have sex with his wife
coz she can charge him with rape or Beastality, if he had sex. If women withhold sex thats ok with Law.

Under Child Custody
- there are only few Chances for men to get his child;
Even Man is Perfect and women is Prostitute, still law gives child custody to women; even Father is natural guardian.

Show me Single Law which Support Indian men,Husband and Father.

By: Rudolph Dsouza
http://mynation.net/abio - AutoBioGraphy of a Dowry Law Victim
I`m writing this as a Victim of this Law; Why i`m still harassed by this law, Even she has not
came for a single court date for 7 long years, still judge is not ready to drop this case. So
there is no need to give any more examples than this, that this law is misused than used correctly
and not all women are victims they are villains too.

chocabsorber said...

Hi Rage,

I am a 26 yr old indian woman and I have many friends,both male and female who don't rave and rant like the constipated loony bins on save indian family. The guys are most cooperative and we work together and help each other out in times of need. I think there are a few Indian men who feel threatened when they see women enjoying life as individuals rather than shadows of their husbands. They are not good enough to make it in life and have to find a scapegoat or two. Indian women are just part of the scapegoat thing. I shouldn't be surprised if these men, when they are not raving and ranting at women, keep raving and ranting about god,westerners,governments,society etc. Losers always do that. Someone else is always resposible for their real and imagined problems. All Indian men are certainly not like this. Many of them I know are very gentle, kindhearted and understanding. My best friend is a boy my age. So don't get the wrong picture.

Rage said...

Thanks, Chocabsorber, for adding your thoughts here. I didn't want to overstate, but the pile-on in this comment section reminded met that sometimes, a folks with a lot of spare time and spite can give the wrong impression about the general mood out there. Definitely appreciate your viewpoint.